The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I think Roff has pretty much nailed it in terms of when overt trouble became obvious. For me, though, an earlier sign of concern was the introduction of the Chronomat Evolution. I may be having to duck beer cans and rotten tomatoes in saying that. I'm not saying the CE was a bad watch, but the manner of its introduction marked an early manifestation of a pattern by Breitling that has since become chronic; the Evolution was a clear sign from Breitling of an inclination toward "radical" departures from, and reworkings of, existing classic models, with little regard to tradition or its core customer base.

Prior to the CE, the Chronomat had a 39mm diameter, a 14.5mm case thickness, and hallmark straight lugs. It maintained these dimensions, more or less, for two decades, albeit with modifications in style over this time. For those who wanted something bigger, they could go with the Crosswind (another classic) at 42.7mm diameter and 15.3mm thickness, or even bigger with the Crosswind Special at 43.7mm diameter and 15.3mm thickness. In 2005, Breitling swept all of these models into the dustbin and introduced the Evo, with a diameter of 43.7mm and a whopping thickness of 17.1mm, and curved lugs. The straight lugs were gone virtually overnight. Breitling then took an existing model, the Chrono Cockpit, and retooled it into a smaller version of the Evo, which had approximately the same dimensions of the earlier Chronomat, evidently to placate those customers who felt burned by its discontinuation.

Some could argue that if Breitling had simply held its course after that, keeping the Chronomat as a large-ish watch, and the Chrono Cockpit as the smaller version, things would be OK, and that it wasn't until the introduction of the Chronomat B01 that things really started going nuts. That's a fair argument, and I don't think too many of us would be howling today if that's how the move played out, especially if that pattern had held for, say, another ten or twenty years. But that isn't what happened. Instead, the Evo/Cockpit lineup got swept aside a mere five years later and was replaced with the polarizing 01/Galactic setup we see today. In hindsight, the Evo/Cockpit change in 2005 was not a solid, well-thought out change in direction for the Windrider range, but was the first step in what became that range's eventual meltdown. That's my take on it, at least.

I just smashed my Evo with a hammer! Please stay away from the Aeromarine range.

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SHARKMAN

hey thanks Alex.




this is interesting jackson. to me i never gave much thought to the previous chronomat. i knew that the dial size was much smaller but the changes to me were not that crazy. i guess the chorno push buttons were different as well. but IMO the overall look was improved with the CE.

That's a fair perspective. A lot of people love the Evo. Personally, I think the 13352 (the last pre-Evo Chronomat) was as good as the Chronomat got, but that's purely subjective. I'm not passing judgment on the Evo itself so much as the way in which it was introduced - sort of a precursor to the schizophrenia we're seeing now. It would be as if Rolex introduced the Deepsea and said, "This is the new Submariner. We're calling it the Submariner Deepsea. The old Sub is no more. But don't worry...there's another model that looks a lot like the old Sub, in case you want it." Can you imagine how up-in-arms Rolex fans would be if that were to have happened? Rolex is too smart to do that. Why Breitling isn't remains a mystery to me.



I think we're in agreement on the Aeromarine range: it was doing just fine until Breitling decided to completely gut it, replacing classic styles with rubber bezels and trashy dials.

Time to find some rubber to melt.

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SHARKMAN

If we're going down that path then the 1984 Chronomat was a radical departure - the first 'modern' Breitling with one of the two classic nameplates that looked nothing like a traditional Chronomat.

That's true, but given that all Breitling production had ceased in 1978 when the company went up for sale, it's not the same scenario. There's a difference between a new owner trying to rebuild a floundering company and a well-established company changing its designs arbitrarily. The question I was answering was when did the current "negative trend" start.

the rolex fanboys would be "UP IN ARMS"! any drastic changes are seriously frowned upon over there. for a while the purists were even upset about the the new subc.

I agree with Roff that the rot set in when the B01 movement was introduced, and more specifically the Chronomat B01. The real shame is that the B01 movement should have been the greatest acheivement in Breitling's modern history, but the Chronomat B01 was one of the most polarising models of the last 20 years. It's no secret I hated the Chronomat 01 when it was introduced, but over time, including babysitting one for a mate for a few weeks, my opinons changed a bit. I even wanted the LE for a while, but there's still no escaping the fact that it's a deeply polarising watch.

After that Breitling seem to have gone completely bonkers - they ripped up the history books (except for the Navi and TOC), discarded all notions of a common brand "look", taken colour inspirations from Lego, and embraced rubber with the gusto of an S&M fetishist. On the one hand they have the most mature and professional of things in the watch-world - their own manufacture movement. But on the hand they are producing some hideously childish and cheap looking models.

I'm still hopeful that Breitling are just having their "Zenith Defy" period, and that reason will prevail, but it takes a lot of balls to effectively admit they were wrong, so I thoroughly expect dodgy styles to continue for some time yet.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I don't know anywhere close to the amount that most of you know about Breitling but what I do know is so far, every watch that I come across that I fall in love with HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED.

It's frustrating to say the least.

Sent from my iPhone

I've admired Breitlings for years. There was/is what I consider the bling side, which I appreciated but don't like personally, and then there were the strong, chiseled, utility watches that I admired. Funny this is that this spring, when I was finally in a place to buy one, I went to the AD and was completely underwhelmed. I ended up getting an Omega because I couldn't find a new Breitling that I really liked that was in my price range. Since that time, it's only gotten worse IMO. Certainly can't eschew the whole brand. They continue to make some beautiful watches. And I do love my SO44, which I had to see in person to appreciate. But, overall, I'm disappointed. After spending more time reading everyone's posts here and revisiting Bretiling AD's, I understand what all the complaining is about.

I'm all for innovation and moving forward with design, but this is a clear loss-of-brand issue.

great info and insights...thanks for the information and perspective...i recently purchased my breitling chronomat and am very pleased that i got the one produced in 2000...really like the watch and it does indeed have the bling factor but not too much

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Breitling Windrider Chronomat
Rolex Submariner
Rolex Cellini
Maurice Lacroix Grand Guichet Masterpiece
Omega Seamaster Professional
Tissot T-Lord Chronograph
"Not to mention many others"

I don't think its so much that Breitling went bigger with the Chronomat ( I owned a beautiful two-toned model) but how much bigger they went in one step. The change was more revolutionary than evolutionary while Rolex, for example, went evolutionary with the Sub and GMT, which is why I think a lot of people here are in love with Rolex right now. And even Rolex can be second-guessed with the DJII, it is arguably too large a jump in terms of size, in one step.

Even so, lots of people here were and are loving their Evos, Crosswinds, Blackbirds, etc. The overall case design, bezel were generally the same and readily identifiable. The latest change, to me, was disorienting. The "Buck Rogers" numbers on the bezel, even if somebody out there likes them, aren't an evolutionary step at all. That and rubberization are the two things that have turned me off. An extreme sports watch can get away with rubber on it but frankly, when it wasn't the original design, to me it looks like a cost-cutting move. We're not used to cost-cutting moves on $4000 watches.

(Brief aside for pet peeve--how can any watch with the word 'ocean' in it not have a lume marker somewhere on the rotating bezel? Just asking.)

While going a bit afield on the Windriders, Breitling, at generally the same moment, then offered us Navitimers at a much higher cost than we are accustomed to paying. Yes, I know, the B01 movement is probably great, but if I already have a Navi and have the price-comparision choice of upgrading it to a B01 or picking up a pre-owned JLC Compressor, Breguet XX or XXI, or other higher-line watch, what am I going to do? My sig line tells you what I did. I understand, with ETA and what they might or might not do, Breitling probably had to make its own movements, but this is going to take some adjustment time. Perhaps as an appeasement, they give us a 'retro' line or two. I actually like them, but I feel like the middle ground is gone.

A bad model cycle is not enough for me to toss my affection for the brand. A good company listens and adapts if a design change doesn't work. Let's see if the numbers support my suspicion that the latest models will not sell as well, and Breitling adapts.

My personal response to it all? INCOMING:

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Scott

AP Royal Oak 15400, silver
Zenith Chronomaster El Primero Classic Cars
Vintage gold Corum
Rolex DJ 36 TT, oyster dial, oyster/smooth
Baume & Mercier Riviera 200m, silver dial/aquamarine bezel
Breitling Superocean 57, rose/stainless

But Rolex didn't replace the DJ with the DJII. They introduced the DJII alongside the DJ. Conversely, Rolex did replace the 36mm Explorer with the 39mm Explorer in one fell swoop. However, most of the criticism I've read about that model isn't about the larger size, but about the fact Rolex didn't increase the size of the hands to keep the dial proportions the same. Those gripes notwithstanding, the grumblings we see with Rolex fall more in line with what Fear said earlier: we're not always going to like everything a brand does. One or two misgivings aside, I don't see people worrying that Rolex has jumped the shark and is a crap brand now. For a lot of us, Breitling is clearly in a different situation, the reasons for which have been amply spelled out in this and many other threads.

thanks for the education guys...new to Breitling but love the history and many models...thanks again

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Breitling Windrider Chronomat
Rolex Submariner
Rolex Cellini
Maurice Lacroix Grand Guichet Masterpiece
Omega Seamaster Professional
Tissot T-Lord Chronograph
"Not to mention many others"