The Breitling Watch Source Forums

One of the things i like about Breitling is that they cater for a range of prices. They're all pretty expensive for your average watch buyer, but for a Swiss watch Breitling currently do a good job of covering different tastes and wallet sizes. I'd be sad to see them leave their more affordable pieces behind.

I'll wait to see it to believe it. This could be a slip by the AD - meaning they are putting an in house in the existing Steelfish and calling it a Steelfish 02 or something.

It would be a mistake to change the styling of the Fish other than some dial aesthetics at most. It would be a terrific mistake to bump the price up $1,000. Either or both would be sad, sad, sad. (Marie, put it on hold a few months. Then we'll chat - in Reno. )

DON'T TREAD ON MY FISH!!!!

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SHARKMAN

A 42mm Steelfish (I have girly wrists ) with an in-house Breitling movement would be an amazing watch. Keep it all brushed, please. Don't mess with the dial - its fine. Don't mess with the bracelet options - they're fine. DON'T put a gimmicky rubber bezel on it - brushed SS is just fine.

What is the problem with that idea you might ask? The trend in new-model Breitling pricing will put the MSRP around $5,000 which would defeat the purpose of the SF.

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Steelfish GMT LE (white)

I would not mess with the Fish. It's much nicer design than the new 42mm SuperOcean.

Don't fix what ain't broken. It has been a very good seller for Breitling I believe...

It would definitely suck if they redesigned the Fish and screwed it up, think SOII, but I would love to see an in-house non-chrono diver, whether they call it the Steelfish or whatever I'm still excited about the prospect.

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"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

I tend to agree with the general sentiment here - i.e. that a non-chronograph in-house movement in a Steelfish kind of case would be a must buy. BUT I sure as hell don't want to see a rubber bezel, or else it'd become an instant DON'T buy as far as I'm concerned.

In terms of moving the brand upwards, then I'm someone who would actually welcome that move, but I also appreciate that a lot of people aren't that bothered by in-house movements and all that.

Personally I'd like to see an evolution of the Steelfish (or Seawolf), not a complete revolution....... unless its a very cool revolution of course! And a "very cool revolution" IMO doesn't mean Blacksteel and it doesn't mean rubber! OK!?!

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Driver8

Site Moderator

Fish was the watch that got me passionate about Breitlings in the first place. That 3D-guilloche dial is stunning compared to boring and plain matte dial on the new SuperOcean (and most other diver watches). Those new SuperOcean huge dial numbers look like they came from an Invicta.

Fish bezel is perfect, all-brushed Pro2 is perfect, bezel is traditional Breitling, it wears perfectly... big, heavy but not overly so... I mean, what there is not to like, and why would you reinvent the wheel?

I see these watches all over in the watch forums. So it must have been really popular model/design for Breitling. I know a guy who owns all three color variations... and now he's buying two more for Xmas presents. I mean really...

I don't believe they will do any major design of that watch. It's practically become a Breitling iconic watch for Pete's sake. Imagine the Omega lovers outcry if they completely reshaped the Speedmaster. Hell, the Rolex guys are up in arms about the new case on the sub and GMT - though you'd have to really know Rolex to see it.

No, I don't believe they would change it - Marie's too smart.

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SHARKMAN

I'd really like to believe that, but the SO was far more of an icon than the Steelfish in terms of longevity and years of produciton, and look what happened there.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

To me, it would be very very od if suddenly Breitling would move away from value market. Something I remember Roff too wondering a few times before is that why in the last few years they´ve made such a huge push with the never ending expansion of the Aeromarine line/value market. It would seem to me that after all that effort and succes in that segment it would be very short sighted to change that aproach. Let´s not forget that some of their core volume models come from there.

If Breitling would start pushing more upmarket, (which they inevetably already have with the inhouse Navis etc.) I´d say with in reason it would still take 5-10 years anyway. So I believe the Aeromarines will be safe for a good while still. And more importantly the move upmarket doesn´t necessarily mean turning their back to the value segment.

like others have said an inhouse Steelfish would ad to the price signicantly. Sure, but it would just be pushed probably around Avenger/SA territory (maybe just over). That to me would be a welcome move and that´s real value!

...And what would be an evolutionary move on Steelfish design with an inhouse movement... Hmmm... I know... How about... keep it as it is, just put the B01 bezel on it???
*running in panic for cover of flying heavy objects*

I don't think that they'll do it, but let's be honest they haven't exactly done the expected thing recently. What I do know is that they need to move away from a reliance on ETA because of Swatch Group's decision to stop the provision of ebauches. They have three distinct approaches to solving that problem, and all of them are being used right now:

1) Alternate suppliers producing ETA / Valjoux designs
2) In house production of ETA / Valjoux designs
3) In house movements

Number 1 will always remain to some degree - production of some parts will be outsourced - there are very few hairspring manufacturers in the world, and you can count the watch manufactures who produce their own hairsprings on one hand. However I see the use of suppliers for mainstream elements of ETA / Valjoux designs (bridges, plates, etc) being phased out because it has the biggest impact on margins.

That leaves in house production of parts, and if you are going to produce the physical elements in house then over time I have to believe that there will be a shift to in house designs rather than the production of designs that are close to 40 years old and don't distinguish you from the competition.

If you want to remain price competitive in the 'luxury value' end of the market then that can probably be achieved with the economies of scale over time, but the huge R&D spend has to be paid for at some point, and I'm not sure how much of a premium consumers will be prepared to pay for a Navitimer / Windrider if the movement is identical to an Aeromarine that is not inflated as much in order to retain / capture that market segment.

But what do I know..........

Couldn't this be said about the current line-up with ETA based movements. I know that there are small variations but if you look at a models like the Chronomat and the Chrono Superocean, there is about a $1000 difference but both have the Breitling 13 movement , based on the Valoux 7750, the only real difference is case and dial design.

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"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

That's my point.

There is a threshold where the premium makes sense, but if you artificially keep the cost of the Aeromarine low with an in house movement to avoid losing the value end of the market then the premium becomes much larger - that $1,000 for an ETA becomes $2,500 or more for an in house, which is likely more than much of the market will bear.

But for non-chronograph models (aeromarine) that are relying on older technology, are initial R & D costs and economies of scale really going to be that hard to achieve? Isn't this technology already there? I am wondering if Breitling can make a “more-or- less- in-house movement” at lower costs than expected. I'm no expert, though...

There is very little new in watchmaking from a pure mechanics standpoint - power is tranferred from a mainspring through a running train and is regulated by an escapement - it's been that way for hundreds of years.

However, if you are designing a new movement then you want to bring something unique to the party - otherwise it's just a modification of an existing design and we are back to ETA / Valjoux (or another movement manufacturer).

If you are designing a new movement then you need to invest in development, prototyping, testing, etc and then the changes to production equipment to produce the new parts. As I noted in an earlier post the costs won't be as bad as for the B01 that they spent more than five years developing, but the costs will still be substantial. Consider also on a non chrono movement that Breitling sells far fewer of those each year so there are fewer units to pay for those costs.