The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Wow! I'm hugely flattered by the vote of confidence there.

However, I personally just think it would potentially be opening up a world of problems from a legal perspective. As Otto said, there'd be a lot of responsibility on the MM's shoulders. All you'd need is for one disreputable individual to send the MM a near perfect fake, they pass it on in good faith, the buyer gets it checked and finds out it's fake, and then the original seller claims it was genuine and that the MM swapped it for a fake...... then we're in one heck of a sticky situation.

I really like the idea of the forum assisting each other as much as we can to try and limit the possibility of fraud, but I for one would be a little reluctant about becoming an informal escrow service myself.

And besides I personally I feel that trades are so risky to undertake unless you can do it in person that I'd really recommend against them.

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Driver8

Site Moderator

I agree 100% D8 i never thought of from that angle and I have to agree what we could do is to meet a potential trade to give our opinions though then at least the other party would have a better chance but then say he shows us a real one and posts a fake,Ummh yes a can of worms indead

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Thanks for the trust, but my country isn't in the EU. http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries/index_en.htm
I have to pay duty for the watch sent from every country in the world (if it's value exceeds cca 58$US - 5%, if it's over cca 3850$US of value, duty is much more), VAT 23% and custom tax and expenses.
For other merchandise duty can be much more and it's obligatory to pay it for most of the goods valued more than cca 58$US or cca 40€.
Shipment send as a gift, makes a good laugh from customs here.

Not sure if that meant me or not, but I will toss in my $0.02:
I understand D8's concerns and agree in the greatest sense. I do not think there is any legal exposure if no fees are collected and not claims are made of expertise (this from laywer wife ). The fake switch could be countered by good photographs sent on the before and after end (much like what one would insist on now anyway.)
I don't know. As my previous posting would indicate, I have a HUGE betrayal problem and would likely look for any solution to avoid another Spartan situation.

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Chronomat, Steel/Gold, MOP Dial, 2-tone band (2008)
Super Avenger Black Baton Dial (2009)
Bentley B04 GMT Silver Dial (2013)
Avenger Blacksteel Baton Dial (2014)

I would be willing to help out if any one needs someone in the SW USA.

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Rolex 42mm Explorer
IWC Ingenieur

A few others too.

I have stayed quiet to see where this was going to go, but here are my thoughts.

First off, I think that the proposed list needs a little work - without pointing out any individual it needs people who are trustworthy AND knowledgeable about the majority of Breitlings.

Secondly, I'm not sure that this would be one or two a year - the sales area is one of the busiest and there do seem to be a lot of proposed trades.

Thirdly, many trades will be across those borders - US and Canada being an obvious example, and I'm not sure how that works - especially when import duty and sales taxes are factored in.

I am more than happy to help out where I can, but I think the only realistic option is to be an independent view in face to face trades - I have to say that I am amazed that people are prepared to trade with strangers. It's easy for me to say this as I don't part with watches that I buy, but there are very few people (easily single digits) that I would consider trading with on here. That's not a reflection on anyone, just on my need for peace of mind.

I'm no expert on the process, but I have to think that an escrow service (or equivalent using PayPal) is a more feasible option.

This is something that happens on the car forum I frequent. Potential buyer says that he's looking at so and so in this area and is anyone willing to look at the car/watch and meet with the owner. A favorable report doesn't ensure a deal, but it minimizes some of the initial risk.

All in all I like the idea of finding a way to minimize the scams. I've never bought a watch through the internet, and really only because there are too many horror stories and I like that fresh watch smell.

First off, I really do like this idea, but it does also seem that there are problems.

I agree with Roff that there would probably quite a bit of traffic, especially in North America. I personally would be fine with no claim of expertise and no obligation for someone to spot a fake on my behalf. I really just want them to verify that indeed the watch was shipped, and done so properly. But with the likely volume of traffic, I think that this is a lot to ask our trusted members to do for free. But if we give them some money (which I would happily do), then you get into legal issues because they are being paid. If these legal concerns could indeed be dealt with, though, by means of a contract ot something, then it might work.

I really do think that the escrowers should be paid, though. It's only a matter of time before something happens that requires a lot of their time. The wife of a coworker of mine use to sell hand-dyed fabrics on Ebay. These were things that cost, at most, $10. Some woman bought like $15 of material from her, then 6 months later decided she didn't want them, demanded a refund, got pissed when all the seller would do is give her credit towards a future purchase (and even that was above and beyond her stated refund policy), called the police and told them that the seller had defrauded her out of several $100, then sued her in small claims court, then tried to have the police arrest her again, and on and on and on. That was pretty much the hardest $15 she had ever made. The problem is that our intrepid escrowers will be forming the defense against people who are trying to really screw us over, and those people may not just roll over. And even if the other party is not trying to screw us over, some people are just plain weird.

What I really do like is the car-buying network example (I have actually done this for a friend, once). There are certainly enough of us who have an established presence on this forum where one would actually stand a semi-decent chance, at least in the U.S., of finding one of us in the same vicinity as a watch being sold. My guess is that the mere suggestion of having a friend stop by would probably scare off most fraudulent sellers. You could also send them some money for agreeing to do this, and (I hope...I'm not a lawyer) this would still not open the path to litigation, since the watch was never in the person's presence.

--Mofongo

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry

I like the thoughts by mofongo, but in runing it by the lawyer-wife to take any money is to form a contract of services, rather than just a favor for a friend (that you may have never actually met). That, according to wife/court weasel is where one would get exposure.

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Chronomat, Steel/Gold, MOP Dial, 2-tone band (2008)
Super Avenger Black Baton Dial (2009)
Bentley B04 GMT Silver Dial (2013)
Avenger Blacksteel Baton Dial (2014)

Hi guys, what you are suggesting , apart from sending the item to a middleman is called Escrow, both members join the escrow service, the buyer can pay by whatever means he likes including credit card ( although there is a charge for this ) and escrow holds this cash , informing the sender to send. When buyer is happy, the money is sent. It works perfectly , i bought a bentley Le Mans using this years ago, and last year other Breitling items.

SWISS1

So even going and looking at a watch on somebody's behalf (and getting money for it) means that you can be sued, too? Hmm...not sure what I would ever sue somebody for. They never had possession of it, so it seems hard to argue they could really be liable for anything.

Speaking of...I am currently working a possible deal for a watch it Litchfield CT (sort of north of Waterbury and west of Harford). Anyone in CT that could go look at a watch for me?

--J

P.S. Failing that, I just may use an escrow service for this one.

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry

I just purchased a watch from private individual and we used Escrow.com, too. It worked really well! Commission was 3.25% (assuming a non-credit-card transaction). Like PayPal, using credit cards costs about 3 percentage points more. I chose to wire the money to Escrow.com, and they cleared the seller to send the item the following morning. All in all, it took 1-2 days longer for me to get the watch than using PayPal, but you get *way* more security as a buyer, and I think as a seller as well. This will be my preferred method from now on. I think the only risk you take beyond PayPal is that the escrow fee is non-refundable even if the transaction fails and the buyer returns the merchandise.

In my opinion, the commission is slightly on the steep side, but for the security it buys you, it is totally worth it and superior to PayPal for non-Ebay transactions.

Mofongo

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." --Dave Barry